@Natureshadow @matrix And Patreon is decentral? 😂

@js @matrix I don't see where I claimed that.

@Natureshadow @matrix What I‘m saying is it’s not decentral anyway so what’s the point?

@js @matrix Why do you think I need to justify my decision to not support closed platforms now, just because I decided to give them a chance two years ago?

@Natureshadow @matrix My point is whether Google Docs or Patreon doesn’t make much of a difference and opposing one while not opposing the other doesn’t make much sense.

@js @matrix But here you go:

1. I have been criticising Matrix for using closed platforms for years. The problem right now is mostly that they didn't improve.

2. Patreon is much more than a form. It is very hard to replace. In contrast to a web form. There is no objective reason to foster Google for providing something as simple a web form.

3. Google has slightly more profound issues when handling my personal data than only being closed.

@Natureshadow @matrix I mean, Patreon could be as easily replaced by a recurring IBAN transfer, right?

@js @matrix No.

@Natureshadow @matrix Can you elaborate? I’ve never had issues with recurring IBAN transfers.

@js @matrix OK.

So, how did you manage accounting for the incoming payments, tax declaration documents for the received income, relation of the payments to Matrix IDs, POS for the various offer you provide, and assignment of the benefits packaged in those offers?

@js @matrix For @teckids_eV, I had a half-time job to manage all that with manual wire transfers. For a handful of subscribers. Matrix has over a thousand subscribers, and Patreon offers all that as a service.

It is far more than just a web form and a bank transfer.

@js @matrix @teckids_eV There are, of course, solutions to do all that using open tools and platforms. But it is far more complex than replacing Google Forms with another web form.

@Natureshadow @matrix @teckids_eV Thanks. I was not aware Patreon does all that work for an organization.

@Natureshadow @js @matrix @teckids_eV
Apart from the Google Forms faux pas. I always thought transparency is great like on
https://fund.blender.org/
or
https://fund.krita.org/

You can even see who contributes financially

@js @matrix In short: There might be reasons to pay a company for providing complex end to end handling of my subscription. There is no reason to pay a hostile company for feeding a web form into a spreadsheet.

@Natureshadow

That's a question of threat model, but I can see why it granted quits on your current funding. Once Google Docs is ditched from writing process, I think Matrix is very worth redeeming in that regard. Don't be hard on them :robotok:

@vintprox Of course.

Once @matrix stops misappropriating my money for fostering and promoting closed, hostile platforms, I will consider donating again.

@Natureshadow sorry to see you go. we are urgently trying to raise funds currently, hence not having time to set up a FOSS webform and using Google Forms to gather input instead. thanks for the support.

@matrix Don't give me that. The issue has persisted for **years**, don't pretend it just came up now.

@Natureshadow then we have no idea what you’re talking about. thought you were complaining about us using google forms to gather feedback on the fundraising. 🤷

@matrix Right now, yes. But as a single incident, I would not make all the fuss.

Besides using Google Forms here, you are using and promoting Google Docs and other closed services all over the place.

@davidfm matrix uses @user:example.com (pronounced “user on example.com”). or if you’re feeling really fancy you can say matrix:u/user:example.com but matrix: urls aren’t that common yet :)

@davidfm, note that while the @matrix URI is yet to be commonly used, it’s natively supported by Firefox now, so you can have anchors like @user:example.com pointing to matrix:u/user:example.com.